I attended 4 of the sessions and both games versus Klinsmann’s senior team.
Caleb Porter
First and foremost, if our praise for Caleb Porter hasn’t been evident, let me repeat, Caleb Porter is legit.
Previously, we’ve been judging him solely from watching his Akron team (on TV and in person). Meaning we’ve never seen him run a session – although it should be clear that to produce a possession-centered, attacking, attractive, and winning product, there must be a lot of proper work being done.
In any case, now we’ve seen his training. He’s the man!
Players
For my impressions, I simply placed them into four buckets.
Tier 1: Means you’re the best of the lot and should be in.
Tier 2: You’ve shown some interesting things, and I want to see more.
Tier 3: Grey zone. Very grey. One step away from getting the boot, or one step from Tier 2. What is certain here is these guys can not get to Tier 1. They don’t have it.
Tier 4: Leave my camp at once!
Tier 1
Amobi Okugo
Kelyn Rowe
Joe Corona
Tier 2
Isaac Acuna
Dilly Duka
Sebastien Lletget
Zarek Valentin
Tier 3
Kofi Sarkodie
Sheenan Williams
Andrew Wenger
Freddy Adu
Mike Stephens
Jared Jeffery
Mix Diskerud
Jack McInerney
Josh Gatt
Tier 4
Sebastien Ibeagha
Royal-Dominique Fennell
Jorge Villafana
Tony Taylor
For those who may be wondering how I’ve come to these conclusions, I want to say three things:
- When you know, you know.
- The details are everything – especially if you want to play quality soccer. This should get you started.
- If you want some high level impressions on what I saw with some of these players, ask away.
By “cannot get to Tier 1” do you mean ever, or is there a time frame you’re thinking about?
Yikes! That’s a great question.
After going through each of those guys in my head again, I have to say never ever.
Are you really saying none of
Josh Gatt
Mix Diskerud
Sheanon Williams
Andrew Wenger
can EVER be Tier 1 players? I would have to disagree, I think one or two of them almost certainly WILL be, eventually.
Diskerud is already one of the best in Norway, Wenger is just entering the professional ranks and his position is still in question, and Gatt has been playing out of position at RB for both Molde and the U-23s…
Josh Gatt:
Technically deficient and lacks tactical depth. This is a player with exceptional speed, and not much else. As for playing “out of position”, I say outside back is what offers him his best chances within a system that emphasizes technical and intelligent play. Especially in a 4-3-3 where we need outside backs projecting forward like beasts. So I’m not surprised at all Porter is trying him there (more props to the coach). He will screw up possession on the wing.
Diskerud:
He does a good job, and that’s worthy of applause. He’s just not special.
He’s not a guy you can count on for penetration. There’s no magic. And I don’t see any potential for him to get to magic … therefore, no Tier 1.
Wenger:
I actually expected much less from Wenger. He pleasantly surprised me with some of his play. The reason for his Tier 3 status is the tactical. It is clear to me that he has not been taught. His on and off the ball decisions need to vastly improve, and that’s going to depend on how malleable he is to changing his habits.
Yes he’s just entering the pro ranks … but he’s 21!!! We have to move away from thinking that is “young”. In soccer terms, it is not. As a player your foundation is formed, and your real upside potential is virtually locked in.
Hi Gary I like your posts and find much of what you say interesting that is why I want to respond here and disagree with you.
“but he’s 21!!! We have to move away from thinking that is “young”. In soccer terms, it is not. As a player your foundation is formed, and your real upside potential is virtually locked in.”
I agree 21 is not young, relatively speaking. But I think it is simply false to say your “potential is locked in” – it looks like this because most people don’t know how to train well, they would rather play than train and improve and develop, and also because most people who haven’t made it by 21 will just give up, and because there are no development academies for players 22 years old…. so it LOOKS like a player cannot develop a great deal past this age, but it doesn’t mean its impossible, just really really hard.
As a thought experiment consider if someone who played pick up soccer most of their life and was a good athlete and smart and disciplined was 23 years old and someone powerful in the Barcelona development system took him in and focused on making him a professional soccer player. I bet in a few years he would be a professional or semi professional player in America.
Funny. Rowe did not start any of the scrimmage games. I completely agree on Okugo and Corona and I am a fan of Rowe. Just wondering why Rowe did not start. You have any idea’s?
Hi Nate.
“Starters” in a scrimmage doesn’t at all mean those are considered the best of the group.
Rowe has never played a professional game. How can you put him in Tier 1?
Hi Jack.
It’s simple, Rowe has excellent technical qualities. He’s one of the most technically complete players I’ve ever seen on American soil. And the vision and timing of his off-the-ball penetrating runs to break the back four are also among the best I’ve seen from ANY American (reminiscent of Cesc Fabregas).
Official ‘professional’ game under his belt or not, he’s clearly better. He showed it in training (among professionals), and he showed it in the games against the Senior MNT. Oh and he showed it playing U20 qualifying with and against professionals. None of this counts?
I want to add that Rowe needs a lot of tactical work. Not surprising since this is problem #1 in our country at every level. But his computer is fast and his vision top-of-the-line … so I believe he is tactically malleable, and will be capable of learning.
My only surprise is that Lletget wasn’t in Tier 1, I’m pretty high on this kid, although admittedly I have seen very little. I’d have to see more of Okugo, and I haven’t seen any of Corona (really excited to see him if you put him in the top bracket after seeing him just once!), Other than that based off the little I know, I hold the players in the same regard, which is probably different from how the coaches view them, although maybe not with Porter. I’d be interested to see a review of the scrimmages, and an outline of the sessions that Porter ran, and why you felt they were so effective, what he did differently from other coaches even if it was smaller details.
Hey Kevin.
Tier 2 is nothing to sneeze at. I like what those guys showed.
Sometimes it’s difficult to compartmentalize players in generalized buckets – it’s really more of a continuum. I agonized over where to place several of these guys as I feel they’re somewhere in between tiers at this point. Lletget is one of those.
I’m not equipped to do a proper review of the scrimmages as I didn’t attend them with the intention of match analysis (and so was not looking at the game from that perspective). My observations were focused on:
1) Individuals
2) The high level (10,000 foot view) tactical play and efficacy (primarily the U23s, not the senior team)
The following is pretty much all I can offer:
The U23s were clearly better at ball circulation and organically building a structured attack. Penetration and being lethal wasn’t quite there. The senior side was far more vertical and to be honest, quite reminiscent of a Bob Bradley / Bruce Arena team.
I’m curious what made you put Gatt in Tier 3? Was it because he was being played out of position or because he was coming off a long layoff from a hamstring injury? Also, you don’t believe a 19 year old, soon to be playing in the Champions League, for a team that won the league, under the tutelage of Ole Gunner, who has recommended Gatt to Sir Alex Ferguson could ever be a tier 1 player? I am not trying to prove you wrong, I am just trying to see what you are (or aren’t seeing) in a player like Gatt, but do see in a player like Rowe, who has never played a professional game?
Hi Spencer.
Please see my responses above for some of my opinions behind Gatt and Rowe.
I’ll add a couple of things:
1) It’s dangerous to place so much emphasis on the things you mentioned. Many of those types of things are a matter of circumstance and not necessarily ability.
2) One coach’s trash, is anothers jewel. I clearly see Gatt fitting into the ‘English’ mold. Speed and vertical play as opposed to technical and intelligent. At the highest international level, that mold doesn’t cut it.
Sorry, but I’m going to trust Ole Gunnar over you on the ability of Josh Gatt. Nothing against you, it’s just that Ole has a little more credibility than some guy with his own blog on the Internet.
What put players in level 3? no skills, brain or what?
All these players have ‘skills’ and some ‘brains’.
But the reasoning is primarily because they are not ‘complete’ in any sense.
And I don’t foresee them ever being complete because their technical and tactical (MOSTLY TACTICAL) foundations are too broken.
What experience and hard work can get them is Tier 2, maybe even high Tier 2. But actually having something special – remember at the international level (Tier 1) – is 1 in a 1000.
I don’t disagree but what is the basis for your ranking of Freddy Adu. How could the early enthusiasm have been so wrong?
Huh? It is for thousands of hot prospects in dozens of sports across hundreds of countries. What makes you think Adu can’t be the same? He is destined to pan out no matter what, despie the fact that so many others don’t? What makes him an exception, especially given his career trajectory over the last half-dozen years, plus the fact that he is a midget with no speed?
I agree with a lot of abc here, except the midget with no speed (I could care less about the physical attributes).
But yeah, people get it ‘wrong’ all across the world. Even Guardiola 🙂
One of my biggest mistakes was Sergio Aguero. Back when he was on Independiente, my bro and many of our friends would put him on a pedestal, and I clearly thought he was overrated. Yikes!
Back to Adu … I think this country gets it wrong far more than anyone.
By Porter’s own admission Lletget is a sweet player. He’s probably the closest if not the only player that fits the #10 role. and I think he is the youngest of the group at 19 years of age.
I think Lletget is a quality player (see my response to Kevin above). He could very well end up being something incredible …
I to have watched a good deal of the games and to some extent don’t completely agree with the Tier 3 grouping. Some of the guys in Tier 2 can also be in Tier 3….are we puting Zarek Valentin up so high because he played for Akon. Our defense on this team needs work I thought our 2nd half defenders played better than the defenders who started both games.
What’s up Larry.
It’s not an accident Valentin is at the bottom of the Tier 2 list 🙂
It’s just that when you compartmentalize, the line must be drawn somewhere. I think Zarek gets the tactical more than anyone in that back row. Certainly being at Akron has a lot to do with it, but then again Sarkodie was at Akron too, and he didn’t show as well.
You’re right, the back four need a lot of work.
On the 2nd half defenders:
The two in the middle (Ibeagha & Fennel) did ok 1v1 to disrupt play, but they are a technical mess on the ball. I’m scared every time they touch it.
Gary/Brian,
Guys I really enjoy reading your articles/blogs and getting an opportunity to read another seemingly solid opinion about players and coach’s. My only request is that I think it would be great if you could add some level of humility to the things you write and say. I appreciate that you seem to have a great deal of knowledge but I think your arrogance shines a little too bright in the things you say. I am still a big fan of the site and readings just would like to read in here some admission that you really have no idea about how these players will turn out from a professional standpoint. These players are all young, have all grown up with different coach’s with different focus’s and in different environments. I think you do yourself a disservice by placing them in any “tier” obviously all of them were invited with at least some input from Coach Porter, who by your own estimation “is the man”, maybe he knows something that we, including you, don’t. Keep up the good work!!!
Hi Josh.
First let me say I sincerely appreciate what you’re saying.
In fact, I agonize over what I publish many times for some of the reasons you state. If you only knew exactly what I really thought! Holy cow!
My general statement for the voice of the site:
* I’m tired of having to apologize for ‘knowing’ what I’m talking about.
* Do I know everything? Of course not. That’s why there are many topics that have not surfaced here the past 2 years. I try not to overreach what I believe to be my sphere of understanding. And when I do, I qualify my opinions.
* We are surrounded by media who frankly have little clue. The blind are leading the blind. US Soccer at all levels needs way more straight talk from those who “know”. The issue is that it takes balls to step out of line – there are consequences (some of which you’re trying to spare me from).
Think of it this way. What is it that you are really good at? What’s your passion? What do you know a hell of a lot about in detail and nuance?
Now, imagine the entire landscape of that subject is polluted with utter nonsense. Things that are just straight up wrong, and not just a mere matter of opinion. What do you do?
Maybe you would edit your copy and not take my approach. Well, to that I say your work would be innocuos. You’ll affect no change. You’ll simply be background noise.
Anyways, I respectfully but clearly move on to some your more specific comments …
1) I can’t admit I “have no idea about how these players will turn out from a professional standpoint”, because it’s just not true. I have a very good idea. Could there be an exception? Sure, but it’s an exception. Just like I have a very good idea Barcelona will beat Malaga, but it’s not literally impossible for Malaga to win.
2) These players are not “young”. That is a very big misconception. They are 19-23. That is old in terms of global development standards. Their technical and tactical foundations have been laid, and that puts a cap on their upside potential. Some people are capable of seeing that cap more than others. Actually most people are utterly incapable of it.
3) Caleb Porter is doing what any coach in that position and at this stage does – evaluate the known player pool. That’s why these guys are invited. I would have invited all of them as well. And yes, it’s likely he knows or has differing opinions on some of these guys. It’ll be interesting to see …
I want to echo Gary’s comments and say this site is a breath of fresh air when it comes to talking about soccer in the U.S. In order to promote change you need to be brash, in your face in our distorted soccer world in the U.S. So many people are not challenged in our system be it coaches, media, bloggers, espn writers etc. they go on write crap we believe it take it as gold and believe that because Alexi Lalas and all these other misguided voices in US soccer played pro soccer that somehow he knows what’s needed in American soccer.
Pretty much i grew up where someone would “G”check you (ha that’s giving away my race isn’t it ha) meaning test if were real about something. Do they live, eat, breathe, this Really? Or do they like that people in US soccer world say they are the truth and like hearing the sound of their voice, being on ESPN etc.
In my opinion we need a blog like this to wake up and see how far we can take this game. I can honestly say since finding out the blog my coaching, philosophy and understanding have improved, because Gary directly and indirectly has “G” checked me in their blog. We need this, disagreements on views, discussinons, brashness, challenging each other’s opinion, the media’s opinon etc is what we need now if we really really want to become a soccer power. I can say most at the top of US Soccer are content, if we want to be content then US soccer is fine, if you want to be the best, i.e. produce some of the best freaking players the world has seen, win the world cup etc then let’s not tap lightly on the door hoping to get in, lets busts through the door, this blog is one step allowing us to crash this party….
my 2, 3, 4 cents….
Well said.
Agree 100% .
@Josh
Oh and I forgot something I think is important.
I’m not a reporter, or your typical soccer opinion blogger. I’m a coach. Not just any coach either, one whose teams have always played possession-centered, attacking, attractive, and winning soccer. As such, I’m trying to offer the readers a glimpse into how we think at a higher level. You best believe a coach’s first-cut evaluation of players is somewhat compartmental like this!
That’s what you do first. It’s goes … “who’s do I really like” … “who do I want to see more of” … and “who doesn’t have a chance in hell”.
After that, you start diving into the specific details and nuances that make every player unique. Hopefully Caleb has exceptional assistants that can offer valid opinions, and thoughtful discussions on the details.
Hi Josh, your comment made me think of a what Winston Churchill once said about Neville Chamberlain: “he is a modest man, with much to be modest about”. True in that example, but not here, I don’t think.
I see your point about the harsh light of truth shining very brightly. Sometimes I have to squint, too. But much of what is written and said about US soccer, whether online, in the press, or on TV, is so dumb and mis-informed that it is unhelpful. To hear this fresh voice, pointing confidently in a new direction, is inspiring, and one of the few sources of hope for those of us who have seen better soccer and want it for the US. This voice has to be as confident as it is honest. I don’t think the Kleibans come across as arrogant. Direct? Yes. Confident? Yes. Willing to back up any of their claims honestly ,and without ad hominem attacks? Yes.
If one of these players being evaluated so harshly by Gary were my kid, of course it would sting a little, but hey, my kids have played competitive sports, and they know there is always someone better (er, maybe lots who are better). If they are too fragile to handle honest feedback, then they are ill suited for competitive sports.
Alberto,
I am thinking more of just from a coach’s standpoint analyzing players and selecting. I don’t know very many coach’s who have missed out on or misjudged several players in both positive or negative ways. I appreciate Gary’s point of view, as I said, but when you rate kids like this in “tiers” it’s dismissive of the ability of players to improve and work on their games with the help of coaching and with the help of maturation. The truth is that no one will know if any of these kids are “tier 1” until they become men and have had time to play and mature. It happens all the time the touted players lose their way or hit their peak earlier than expected etc…. I have no problem with the analysis but all we can really say is that so and so played well today, we have no true idea about tomorrow. Lastly, I do not know any man who doesn’t have plenty to be modest about
My responses above.
Thanks Alberto.
It’s always a great feeling to be understood.
I hope I never offend you … but it might happen someday and I’ll gladly take your heat.
Alberto —Absolutely dead on — thanks
Thanks for the analysis Gary. Very interesting read. Can you provide a little more detail as to how Corona played and why you have him in Tier 1?
Hi Seymour.
Corona is technically smooth and sound. He has vision, is mentally quick, and consistently executes proper decisions. What I saw in him over others was less at fault turnovers, and the capacity for more consistent and successful creative penetration.
hi Gary Kleiman, i was wondering if u could give me a phone number o one of la masia trainers to call them and see how i could enter in.
How could I do something like that David? I don’t know anything about you.
Let’s keep the comments on the topic of the post please. You can email me at gary[at]3four3.com
I hold the exact opposite opinion of Josh. Gary, I don’t find you arrogant at all, you are not forcing your opinions on anybody you are simply saying how somebody that values skillful and creative attack minded soccer with an emphasis on possession should see the game. Something that is unique and sorely needed here. Someone who has not only played that way but done it with success is invaluable to share information, sharing information and giving opinions on players, coaches, philosophies etc. are far from arrogance, they are simply opinions (opinions I nearly always tend to agree with), but someone else may or may not and that is fine to, I’m sure there are blogs like this with coaches that love to play athletic and direct soccer, and there is nothing wrong with that either, but for us who value the above mentioned way of playing, this site is an excellent source of information and ideas and I am very thankful for it. I just want to let you know I find you extremely informative and helpful rather than arrogant, but again that is just my opinion, and Josh is welcome to have his opinion as well. Also, I completely agree that a u-23 team can be put into tiers, as you said and correctly in other parts of the world guys these age are often veterans of the first team. That’s why I find it almost comical when I hear people saying that our U-23 team is “stacked”, that’s laughable when you look at the U-21 side Spain had in U-21 Euro’s for example with the likes of Mata, Thiago, Munian, Javi Martinez, etc. but we have some guys that make the bench for Bundesliga clubs from time to time. As far as the tiers go, it doesn’t mean that the tier 1 players will always end up on the biggest clubs, but they resemble most what the best players in the world do. A guy like Gatt could get on Manchester United and maybe even play a role with his pace and athleticism, but a servicable player on a great team isn’t what the goal of a “tier 1 player” should be, a tier 1 player is a difference maker. That is not saying that Corona and Rowe will be difference makers like the Snjeiders, Messis, Iniesta’s, Ronaldo’s etc. of the world, but it does mean that they are the closest to resembling this higher level of play, and potential to have special qualities like these big time difference makers do.
Anybody have any insight on Kelyn Rowe? Who were his youth coaches? Did he come from a soccer hot bed with an unusual approach? Pro soccer players in the family?
Gary, I love your site, your straight-forward opinions, and your picture of how soccer should be played. I must admit that I am not an xxx’s and ooo’s person. I focus specifically on the individual player’s ability to trap, pass, and hold the ball. I watch how the entire team performs as an organic whole — no concern with formations!! I would be an awful coach but I am confident in my ability to appreciate beautiful play. From that perspective, I find your technical analyses to be the most accurate in portraying and promoting the sheer beauty of this game. Please do not temper your judgments and opinions to placate those whose goals are to accept less than the best from our athletes, no matter how they couch their opinions.
My only complaint is that we don’t get more of your thoughts on specific players and coaches.
Gary,
Different topic — how about an analysis of Klinsmann’s effort to date! I detected a bit of frustration in your comment on the MNT’s style of play in their scrimmage with th U-23’s. I am a big fan of JK but admit that I may be too forgiving.
I’m skeptical Jim to say the least, but I want to give him more time. It doesn’t look good.
Let me watch the latest game against Venezuela that I missed and I might write something up.
Not sure if this post is still being answered but Gary any insight on Sheenan Williams and his potential on this team? As a Union fan his skillset seems to resemble more of a Gatt type of player who is super athletic, fearless making runs up the field and plays with a lot of heart.
Also, I love seeing the props for Amobi Okugo. I recently detailed each player in that list that Jeff Carlile did on ESPN about 10 best players under 21 for USA to a couple uninformed friends and highlighted Amobi as being just a pure player, guy who can make any pass, super athletic but who can also read the the game (a quality lost on most of our holding midfielders).
1st thing: Sheenan was totally out of shape. He needs to shed some pounds!
That’s worrisome if we want to talk about how far a player can go. It may be indicative of discipline.
Aside from that, I think he’s a solid player. Not special. Solid.
Completely different qualities from Gatt.
Sheenan has a concept and has better vision. Technique … meh around the same, if anything, he has better mechanics. He can fit as an outside back in this possession-centered team. But I don’t expect him to be breaking the opponents defence with his runs. From what I saw, his timings were off, and decision-making in the offensive 3rd slow. But at this point, I think those are correctable with him. Perhaps it’s because of the extra junk in the trunk??? I’m serious, he looked 10 lbs overweight.
Gary, great stuff, been reading it for a couple of months. Two questions. Thoughts on Duka? Since most of Tier 4 players listed are defenders, who would you suggest to replace them? Thanks.
Welcome Dave!
Duka showed pretty well on the ball, and shifted ok defensively with the play.
He’s like a little pitbull dribbling, stroking the ball, and getting stuck in … oh I don’t know … like an mini Edgar Davids (except without the magic).
Seemed to me he is behind with vision, and the tactical.
Most notable were many instances where he neglected to provide an outlet for his teammates. And no, I don’t think it was just one of those things were a player has a mental lapse, it seemed intrinsic to his play.
Posted on Do you people have a fbaoceok fan page? I looked for one on twitter but could not discover one, I would really like to become a fan!
You’re right I need to actually promote our presence over there … haha.
http://www.facebook.com/3four3
Help us spread the word!
I don’t watch MLS much and I’m not intimate with defenders who may be abroad.
Maybe this is where you bring in a senior guy?
The only one(s) I wouldn’t mind seeing in camp are the Farfan brothers? But then again, they’d be outside backs, and I think we’re most hurting at center back (with both Fennel and Ibeagha being CBs). And I feel traditional wingers or even midfielders can be effectively converted to the outside (Gatt and even Mike Stephens were tried there).
A couple youth NT regulars that have played there are Perry Kitchen and Gale Agussa-something.
I think Kitchen played regularly on DC United – not to mention he was an Akron boy. So fine, bring him in for a look. He is a thousand percent better than the two guys I don’t want to see any more of.
Gale, on the other hand, I don’t like at all.
It’ll be interesting to see who is ultimately there, because CB is a spot I believe needs to be among the most solid and experienced. Otherwise, any top tier squad will slice through like butter.
EDIT: Scratch the Farfans, looks like they’re overage …
I saw Kitchen a few times last year and while promising from an MLS standpoint – I don’t think he’d make any of your tiers. The only reason he got so many minutes is there just weren’t many other options at CB for DC United last year. One to maybe watch for the future (although not in time for Brazil) is Tyler Turner on the U17 team – a converted central midfielder who’s now a ball-playing center half. Plays like a young Thiago Silva.
Can’t comment on Kitchen as I haven’t watched any DCU games.
I’ll keep an eye out for the Tyler Turner name. Usually good news when a defender use to be a center mid.
Re Klinsmann: I agree, I just don’t see it from him. What I see is another USSF clone with a foreign name. We might as well have kept Bradley because I am seeing a lot of the same things. Athleticism and size is valued over vision, tactical awareness, and skill. Our biggest plan of attack is to get down the flanks and whip in crosses to the big target forward, and we have a midfield with a mediocre at best skill level because we would rather have headless chickens that run around senselessly and make cool looking tackles, even if it means pulling our team out of shape if we don’t win the ball, and if we do win it, either a turnover or a 3 yard square ball. Defenders like Onyewu, Boca, De La Garza and Lloyd who again offer a lot athletically but are very uncomfortable in possession and don’t add anything to the attacking end. I was excited for new ideas when Klinsmann came in, but I am just seeing the same things all over again and it is really disappointing so far. I will hold judgement until qualifying when we see what he choices as his A team with everyone to choose from, but as of now, it doesn’t look very good.
The scariest thing Kevin are the conclusions that would come from the clueless media and the Federation’s decision-makers, if Klinsmann is a “failure”.
The 99% will see it as validation of the stupidities they’ve been saying for years.
The result? A huge setback in progress. We won’t hire a foreign coach who actually knows something, for decades.
Very true, they would blame it on “not knowing the american player” like we are some un-human form or something rather than the simple fact that he is getting the same results as Bradley and the other past American coaches because he is doing the same things as Bradley and the past American coaches.
Or maybe it’s just because he’s limited by the same player pool as Bradley and the past American coaches.
The player pool is selected by the coach. So JK is not limited to what his predecessors chose to work with.
For the most part it’s true that in general the national team player pool is comprised of the ‘best players’. But what’s considered the ‘best players’ by people is a function of style of play, or lack thereof.
For instance, if someone has a philosophy that values retention of the ball (ie possession), then the player pool will likely look quite different from the Bradley one.
So it’s a bit early, maybe, I’m not sure to indict JK now. In the beginning of any coach’s tenure, the current player pool must be evaluated up close and personal. The coach must assess what players are tactically malleable to the new philosophy, and go from there.
I’m rooting for Klinsmann. The progress of US Soccer at all levels is more dependent on his success than most realize.
I guess my point really goes back to the old question – do we actually have the players who have the technical ability and Soccer IQ to successfully play the possession-based attacking style we all want to see ? B/c if those players are out there, then the verdict on Klinsmann so far – in terms of who he has called up to be part of that pool — is not looking very good.
3 possible scenarios: 1) Those players do exist, and JK has seen them, but he just can’t recognize their quality. This was a reasonable possibility to consider with BB but is exceedingly unlikely with JK, IMO.
2) Those players do exist, but JK hasn’t seen them b/c they’ve never been discovered, b/c they’ve never really been given a chance in a system which would showcase their abilities, b/c such systems are few and far between. This is the “Xavi who?” hypothesis: Stick a 12-15 year-old Xavi on the wrong team with a clueless coach and other players who can’t maintain possession of the ball if they tried … and at best all (almost) anybody would see is a short midfielder who makes a few nice passes, but doesn’t really do anything spectacular. On most “elite” youth clubs in the US, he probably doesn’t even make the cut b/c he’s not fast/big/athletic enough, and he doesn’t dribble past 3-4 people routinely so that his abilities would be obvious even to the nearly blind.
3) These players do not exist, beyond a few quasi-exceptions (Dempsey), because our youth development has been woefully inadequate at every level (age 5-17). Recent (last 10 years or so) changes have begun to make a difference, although not widespread enough, but the majority of US players b/n 22-30 were trained by old-school coaches in old-school systems, and the overwhelming majority (almost all) of them did not spend nearly as much time with the ball during their formative years as their international competitors. To quote Klinsmann again: ““The foundation is youth. What is really missing compared to the leading soccer nations around the world, … is the amount of time kids play the game. A kid in Mexico might do 20 hours of soccer a week — 4 training and 14 playing around with his buddies in the street. One thing is certain: The American kids need hundreds and even thousands more hours to play. That is a really crucial thing.”
The truth is probably a mix of #2 and #3, and ultimately I agree with your last point – I too am rooting for Klinsman b/c his success can go along way towards improving both.
Nice!
I’m going to just take this and make it a standalone post tonight.
That way it doesn’t get buried here under the U23 topic.
Not to mention how a team plays is not exclusively a function of player pool.
A coach’s capacity for ‘set tactical work’ is a huge limiting factor.
Gary-
in regards to Sheenan, I can agree that he does need to work on the offensive 3rd and some of his timings. However, I do not see the weight issue you’re talking about, nor how he was out of shape. I watched a couple scrimmages and he seemed to be perfectly in shape, how could you not be with only really having a week off during the off season? Would you rather have your defenders be scrawny and weak or bulk up a little bit?
On another note, how do you think it will affect the Union if all five players are chosen? I see that you don’t foresee this happening but am curious to say the least. Who do you see making the team besides Okugo? Remember his poor performance with the U-20’s last year…
Hi Josh, when did you see him? I saw him last on December 17. I’m not talking about bulking up, I’m talking fat. He had a spare tire around the waist, and it showed in his face as well. He was noticeably slower too. But forget my noting it, the coaching staff told him the very same thing (yes, I know this).
I don’t know how it will affect the Union. I watched a total of 11 MLS games last season (2 of those were of the Union … vs Real Madrid and vs Dynamo on 11/3). But I will say that I think Chandler Hoffman is better than Mcinerney.
Okugo is the only one I’d bet to make the team. I really can’t say who else at this point. That’s why I defined tier 2 and tier 3. Those are guys that we need to see more of for better resolution.
Gary and co…
I spent today catching up on the site as after abandoning google reader I forgot. Do you tweet your new posts at all?
Of course you guys come across as arrogant but at least you suggest that you might be wrong as to assume that being wrong is impossible would only hurt your credibility. That being said, soccer in this country needs strong opinions about building not just smart/tactical players, not big and fast ones. Getting excited about the big and the fast constantly fails in other more american sports, but it is a hard habit to break. Gatt falls into this category, breathtaking runs but hasn’t shown much else…not surprised you came to the same conclusion.
My hope is that CP puts together a nice Olympic run and starts himself down the path of becoming the full national team coach. That is what we should be targeting.
Hey Adam.
I haven’t really gotten hooked on twitter yet, so some posts escape me.
Really hope CP is ‘successful’ too. The alternative would be disastrous for the future (we’ll get a monkey replacement)!
Agreed that the next logical American growth area is in our coaching. We are a nation of individuals. Soccer is a team sport so it’s a tough match that takes time.
Xavi would get overlooked here I’m sure, but someone like Tim Howard does not. This is because of the difference between mid-fielder’s inter-dependent role versus a goalie’s independent role. Americans easily understand why Tim Howard is so great at all levels and I’m sure that fueled his success all along. Youngsters Americans can look to his success as copy it without needing cooperative team-mates. That’s a great start for us.
To me the next logical step is to groom a great individual American coach. Someone we can all refer to tactically and say let’s follow his plan because he wins 9 out of 10 games for X number of years. I hope CP is the guy because he is obviously following international standards that clearly seem to be revolutionizing soccer as we know it. Nobody talks about the flashy Brazilian style anymore. The argument nowadays is possession versus direct attacking. Anyone who watches World Cup, Euro, Champions League and Clasico can clearly see that possession is winning.
The question for CP is now can he translate his influence to the U23 national team and can he evolve as the international standard evolves on to something better? He will have to to emerge as one of the all-time great American soccer coaches. But when we do have a great domestic coach it will do wonders for the youth rank coaches who are totally clueless and defer to what they were taught in the 70s,80s, 90s.
To think we’re going to domestically develop world class strikers, mid-fielders and defensemen before a world-class coach and his proteges is a long shot. Like someone mentioned here it’s possible only with children of pro-soccer players or with freaks like Dempsey and Donovan who refuse to be held by the same standard as their fellow countrymen. Even at that though there seems to be a limit as to how good American players can get without a life long experience of great coaching, respect from their competitors, and a ball at their feet.
The next step is to systematically improve coaching… starts here. Talk it up.
Yes, yes, and yes.
I don’t know why it seems like I respond to your posts the least Jesran, but they are among the best. Without the proper coaches in place – to first select players and then refine – all we’ll continue to pump out is coal, not diamonds.
Great site…
Can you explain the training sessions that Caleb ran?
Welcome dph!
He ran truly possession-centered, brain-stressing sessions, accompanied by proper verbal instruction and philosophy at the ‘proper’ times during exercises.
Detailed diagrams along with descriptions and interpretations are things I will devote time to in the future.
Yes please let us the know the exercises and progressions he used.
I am fan of his Akron style of play so learning a bit more of his methods really interest me.
Do you have an approximate date when you will post the sessions run by Porter?
Hey dph.
Yeah when I said “in the future”, I meant totally indefinite.
Perhaps this summer.
Come on hook us up very curious….
Gary still patiently waiting for your practice notes.
Thanks 🙂
Well it is summer…still waiting… patiently…great site by the way
Re: Detailed diagrams along with descriptions and interpretations are things I will devote time to in the future.
Can’t wait for these! Thanks a lot!!
Hey Gary,
I just wanted to ask you about the recent USA game vs. Panama. It seemed like to me that for some parts of the game, there were spells of possession that was never seen when Bradley was head coach. Building from the back, outside defenders contributing to the offense, reset of play and not just waking the ball up field and so on. I just wanted to hear your thoughts about it and if you think the US are heading in the right direction. Now I am aware that Panama outplayed the US at many points in the game and definitely could have tied it, but I liked the fact that when Larentowicz and Evans entered the game there was wayyyyyyy more possession, and they had only ten men. Thoughts?
Thanks!!
What up Bren!
I’ll come back and post what I think when I actually watch the game.
Huh, says quite a bit doesn’t it … haven’t even seen the Venezuela game either.
Bren– thanks for voicing exactly the same thoughts that I have been having. Much earlier “Mike”made a similar point in saying that JK is limited by the existing player pool — and I would add, by the necessity to WIN while he is trying to expand the player pool and change the style of play. I love this site and have successfully converted some friends and relatives to following it but I’m a little surprised that Gary hasn’t shown a little more patience with Klinsmann and the multiple problems he faces Gary ????
Hi James. You could take a look at my response to Mike on ‘player pool’.
Yeah any time there’s serious pressure to win, and win now, it has a strong influence on the process. Sometimes you can’t work in peace, and your vision is not allowed to flourish. I don’t presume to know how much real pressure JK has imposed on him and/or how comfortable he is with it, and what attitude he takes towards it. All important things.
I think I’m showing patience with Klinsmann.
I haven’t written a post convicting him of anything, just simple comments here and there so that a touch of my thoughts are out in the wild.
But I must admit, my ‘spidey sense’ has been tingling.
Haha definitely Gary take your time :). And James, like Gary said this is a process, and I don’t think Gary has made a clear opinion of Klinsmann either. It’s hard to at this point to really judge Klinsmann now because he is coaching a team that has the main components of and is still highly impacted by the ‘Bradley’ form of play (which is what most American teams play anyways if you didn’t know). And thats great that u agree with me but if we could get our so called top players to think and play simply while knowing the key components of playing a possession based style of soccer, then we will be a much more dangerous team with the potential to go farther then we have gone in the past!!
It sure looks like some of those Tier 3 “They don’t have it” guys are close to locks to make the roster for Olympic qualifying (Diskerud, Adu, etc.), whereas some of the Tier 1s and Tier 2s are not (Rowe, Acuna, etc.). Apparently your hero Porter has some different opinions about some of these guys… even some of the Tier 4 “Leave my camp at once” guys are still in the picture (Taylor, Villafana).
I sincerely hope you continue learning abc.
The first thing you must understand is:
there’s a lot more going on than what you wrote.
Once you can accept that as a possibility, then you can move forward.
If you’re open, I’m at your service.
I saw this awhile back and decided to come back to it after things had played out with the U23. It’s sad that people are immediately bashing Porter. It’s just plain ignorance and it’s fans taking it on face value. I live less than 2 hours from Akron, and have made the drive to see what all the buzz is about at least once the past few years. It’s absolutely refreshing to see his team play, as is yours Gary K.
I’m a coach and a soccer junkie. I watch it all from U-little rec, club, high school, college, semi-pro, and pro (MLS and beyond). When you watch it as much as I do, you want to just cringe. For me, there are many things wrong with soccer in America not just one thing. But if you asked me to single one aspect out: lack of ideas. Our players lack ideas about how to play the game. It’s a thinking game, not a kicking game and at all the levels we lack thinkers. It’s forgivable, excusable at the youngest levels (but I begin to believe that less and less). Anyway, to tie it all back together, seeing Mr. Porter’s team play—you can’t accuse them of being thoughtless. From individual actions on the field, to the team as a whole you can see and feel brain cells firing. And it’s refreshing.
About the tiers: for anyone who has run tryouts at any level it’s true. The top group is clear to see, I can spot them after 5 minutes of playing. Easy. Boom. Go home, and let me focus on these other kids.. Next tier down still easy to spot but the pros and cons are evident, good play followed by a head scratcher. I’ll skip to the bottom group and say that it’s also evident in about 10 minutes of play, who can’t play. The third tier is always the hardest because, like Gary says, they are on the fringe and you see enough to justify keeping them around and you need the numbers (usually).
Now at every level, the 3rd and 4th aren’t worthless, untalented, no-hope players. They just can’t hang with the group they are being evaluated with.
Rob, thank you for such a brilliant contribution.
I still haven’t read a single thing online about Porter (post U23 failure). But I can tell you this, our soccer media as you mention are very superficial – they have negligible soccer sophistication. And as such, I’m not inclined to read their stuff. It is essentially like reading a kindergartner’s work on what they think about the economy.
You nailed the classification of players (tiers)!
Funny how people say: “How dare I classify players like that”!
Any comment on the U.S. goalkeepers? How would you rank them?